we are obviously certainly no further down the road to a f fiscal cliff deal. what's the latest and is this posturing, kelly, or is this real? i mean, is this disagreement about kind of laying out the stakes of where everybody stands and what they're willing to give or is it a possibility that we don't get a deal? >> reporter: well, you do hear rumblings, chris, about no deal. but at the same time people are saying there's still some negotiating time left and a bit of optimism. when you heard the tone of what was unfolding yesterday, it was kind of shocking to republicans who would say that the president's offer is so far from a negotiating point that they are surprised not so much that these are the positions that we're in because much has been the president's public rhetoric but in terms of real negotiating they say they were surprised this wasn't the kind of offer that would have happened some weeks ago, meaning right after the election if you want to start there. but now with just four weeks to go they felt the president needed to move further. democrats be